Proposal: Migrating k-dev to a managed kubernetes.io account #5877
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k8s-ci-robot
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sig/contributor-experience
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/area community-management |
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Work done: Work needed: |
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timeline: |
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other communications needed: |
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leads@ and #chairs-and-techleads have been given notice kdev moderators are in the loop as well (please comment here y'all if we are missing anything!) |
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Could we take the opportunity to shorten the address (given "Kubernetes" is implied in the domain name? |
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I was thinking [email protected] personally since we canonically know it as "k-dev" might be dev-k now :P |
Agreed, but I'm also thinking it'd be cool to get away from any connotation that it's only a "dev-focused" list (being one of our primary discussion forums for code/non-code contributors/users alike) |
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It might be useful to have multiple lists this time, e.g. one that is upstream development specific and one that is broadly contributors to the organization? e.g. when we share documents, calendar invites etc., those should be open to anyone in the organization (OTOH calendar invite volume is a real issue as well...). Whereas when we wind up needing to announce things like "we're removing bazel here's what you need to know", "code freeze is coming", "these tests are failing and the release is blocked" those are generally actually aimed at people doing development in the "main" project and kinda just noise for anyone that isn't. ... But so far we've conflated "access to things in the organization" with "wishes to subscribe to cross-SIG development news" and "wishes to subscribe to general project news (elections etc.)". |
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@BenTheElder what if we moved the latter (upstream dev) to discord and/or slack only and not a mailing list? also curious if folks in contributor comms have thoughts there re: two upstream mailing lists with separate purposes |
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@mrbobbytables @justaugustus - [email protected]? (contributors@ is already in play for the official comms) agree that we should take kubernetes out though at the very least for shorter |
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Slack might work, but kubernetes-dev@ has had a pretty solid signal / noise ratio for the purpose of subscribing to upstream-developer facing updates at least, whereas the closest current slack channel I think last we discussed discord for developer comms it was a no-go because employers blocked it due to the gaming association or somesuch, so we kept slack. I think there's still value in a space for developer facing announcements, if we want to do that with slack I think we might need to do something like EDIT: We should definitely stop conflating these purposes though, and naming like |
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Maybe those development announcements should just be rolled into the one overall contributors mailinglist and not split out, but in either case I would advocate for something other than "dev" for that name, that more clearly encompasses all contributors. To me at least "dev" sounds like a reference to writing code. It's too bad we already use |
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+1 on discord and employers, forgot about that. I'm still on the positive with #kubernetes-contributors on slack because we can automate the kdev mailing list comms in there now we just don't because of time to do and think about the thing. moderation has made it infinitely better already. would it be possible to sideline the convo about announcements channel / how we communicate announcements and proceed with migrating? I fret coming up with what goes where and why could take us a while to come to consensus and the migration is blocking a few different initiatives right now. |
Absolutely 🙏, just with the related sticking point that maybe "dev" isn't quite the name we're looking for, for broad community-wide calendar invites etc.? |
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100% same page @BenTheElder - lemme update the issue too |
Sadly we can't do this with slack, we only get one channel that is restricted to who can post there 🙃
Yes
I do think they should all be rolled into 1 list, there really isn't much comms on k-dev currently and its mostly contributor announcements - more discussions take place on the sig-specific mailing lists.
👍 Maybe we could repurpose [email protected]? We've used it in the past for events and things like that, but for most of the years it goes unused. |
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Another idea is to use something like github discussions for k-dev?
It seems to be working well for some CNCF projects
https://github.com/linkerd/linkerd2/discussions
And bigger projects like Node and Tailwind:
https://github.com/nodejs/node/discussions
https://github.com/tailwindlabs/tailwindcss/discussions
GH Discussions also can allow you to filter by announcements etc
…On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 12:23 PM Bob Killen ***@***.***> wrote:
I think there's still value in a space for developer facing announcements,
if we want to do that with slack I think we might need to do something like
#announcments (#kubernetes-dev-announce ???)
Sadly we can't do this with slack, we only get one channel that is
restricted to who can post there 🙃
where posting is restricted. A moderated mailinglist seems hard to beat
for this purpose
Yes
Maybe those development announcements should just be rolled into the one
overall contributors mailinglist and not split out, but in either case I
would advocate for something other than "dev" for that name, that more
clearly encompasses all contributors. To me at least "dev" sounds like a
reference to writing code. It's too bad we already use ***@***.***
I do think they should all be rolled into 1 list, there really isn't much
comms on k-dev currently and its mostly contributor announcements - more
discussions take place on the sig-specific mailing lists.
Absolutely 🙏, just with the related sticking point that maybe "dev"
isn't quite the name we're looking for, for broad community-wide calendar
invites etc.?
👍
Maybe we could repurpose ***@***.***?
We've used it in the past for events and things like that, but for most of
the years it goes unused.
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SIG Testing has been trialing GitHub discussions and no-one will use it, probably because our github inboxes are already a tire fire : ( |
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We share docs with k-dev (acls) and a good chunk of our contributors really want to stick with mail - we saw this when we brought up migrating to discourse. Discussions also have a lot of moderation issues (aka its 100% on the github admins to handle or we create a new repo with new people with admin access) =/ |
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For anyone following along and getting lost ... => |
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/close we're done! |
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@parispittman: Closing this issue. In response to this:
Instructions for interacting with me using PR comments are available here. If you have questions or suggestions related to my behavior, please file an issue against the kubernetes/test-infra repository. |
and others
Kicking off an issue to track a discussion we've been having in Contribex. Currently, we can't send out community-wide calendar invites to k-dev due to restrictions around public Google Groups that limit how many people you can send a calendar invite to. Since we're in a situation where people track everything on their calendars and are generally remote, the lack of calendar invites means attendance and engagement are low. In addition, new contributors generally miss out on community-wide events since the calendar invites are not present and they may only hear about a community event after the fact.
Other issues:
Related kubernetes.io Google Workspace automation steering#213 and,
Rethinking the Monthly Community Meeting #5462,
current community infra issues / gsuite #3541 ,
gsuite process and guidelines #3362
We propose migrating k-dev to a managed kubernetes.io address. This requires a lot of work (including many things I know I don't know about). Let's use this issue to track the thoughts and the work.
naming convention: - needs a decision from the community; pending a contribex meeting
#6274
timeline
(turning off access to post and new membership)
comms to be drafted [help us with this! comment below with suggestions for each]
#6273
Post migration items
#6275
/sig contributor-experience
/assign @nimbinatus
cc @mrbobbytables @alisondy
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