Conda forge: from zero to hero

[guettli]

I heard that conda-forge is great. I am doing python development since several years.

Still I don't understand the current about page: https://conda-forge.github.io/#about

Please make the about page more new comer friendly.

Up to now I only used pip, but I am looking for an alternative.

[kain88-de]

What do you not understand in the about page?
Do you need help installing the conda package-manager?

[guettli]

I don't see the benefit. Up to now I only used pip.

AFAIK up to now conda's source code was available, but you could not do host your own repositories.

Maybe I misunderstood it, but I heard that with conda-forge you can host your own repositories.

This way you have a interesting alternative to pip and pypi.

Why should I use conda-forge (and not go the pip/pypi road)?

What do you not understand in the about page?

I have only a vague understanding of the term "conda recipe".

[ocefpaf]

@guettli I guess that there is some confusion on the conda vs pip usage and what conda-forge is.

conda-forge is a community that packages software for the conda package manager and hosts them in a channel at https://anaconda.org/conda-forge

Anyone can create a free account at anaconda.org and host their own binaries there, conda-forge's difference is that our recipes are open, editable using GitHub, and maintained by the community.

The conda vs pip debate is long and I recommend you to read http://jakevdp.github.io/blog/2016/08/25/conda-myths-and-misconceptions/

Spoiler: there is no conda vs pip nowadays but rather a conda+pip workflow taking advantage of both worlds. For example, my workflow is to get the "hard to compiled" and "complex dependencies" packages with conda and installing the fast "evolving pure python packages" with pip inside a conda environment.

[kain88-de]

AFAIK up to now conda's source code was available, but you could not do host your own repositories.

The repositories are still hosted on anaconda.org. There isn't so far any largely available channel that is independent from hosting provided by continuum.

Maybe I misunderstood it, but I heard that with conda-forge you can host your own repositories.

Now the repositories are still hosted by continuum on the anaconda.org website. Conda-forge gives you access to a large number of packages that are usually upto date with pip and all in one place.

Why should I use conda-forge (and not go the pip/pypi road)?

depends on your needs. For pure python packages using pip and virtual envs is fine. But conda is a general package manager. It shines when you need software packages that aren't python. This is a common case for scientific software. A result of this is that you have a lot of non python package available with conda/conda-forge. Personally I also prefer the conda environments to virtual-environments in pure python.

[ChrisBarker-NOAA]

Hmm, There IS an issue with branding and things with different names getting confused. Maybe we should have a bit more background on the conda-forge about page. The current page assumes the reader is already familiar with conda, etc. But maybe folks will land on conda-forge early in the process now...

AFAIK up to now conda's source code was available, but you could not do host your own repositories. Maybe I misunderstood it, but I heard that with conda-forge you can host your own repositories. what conda forge adds in not a new way to host packages, but rather a way

manage the building, and maintenance of packages (and, of course, the fact that a substantial community is already using conda-forge to do that)

Why should I use conda-forge (and not go the pip/pypi road)?

The question is not "why should I use conda forge?" but rather, "why should I use conda?" What do you not understand in the about page?

I have only a vague understanding of the term "conda recipe".

So I think some more background there would be helpful. In short: What is conda (with links to where to learn more) What is a conda recipe -- with links to how to build one What is anaconda.org How does all this relate to the "Anaconda" distribution? And maybe a: How to get started using conda-forge packages: - install miniconda - add the conda forge channel start installing stuff! Maybe I'll see if I can do a PR to get this started.

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-CHB BTW: we may want to have a "public statement" of sorts about the hosting issue. I know some folks are uncomfortable about depending on a proprietary hosting service (i.e. anaconda.org) -- folks think gitHub (for example) is OK, as they can always clone their repo somewhere else. And PyPi is run by a non-profit, so that's great. And conda itself is open-source. But what will happen if continuum can no longer maintain anaconda.org? I think the community would step up and put up a public hosting service. I am not sure how well documented the API would be, how hard it would be, etc. But I do know that it is possible.

-CHB

-- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer Emergency Response Division NOAA/NOS/OR&R (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception [email protected]

[guettli]

@ChrisBarker-NOAA thank you Chris for understanding what I want.

I see 80 open issues on github.

Please don't forget this minor documentation issue. For me it is no "minor" since new comers need our helping hand.

Since I have never used conda or conda-forge, I am not the one who can create a good pull request.

What is the next step according to your point of view?

[ChrisBarker-NOAA]

@ChrisBarker-NOAA <https://github.com/ChrisBarker-NOAA> thank you Chris for understanding what I want. I see 80 open issues on github. Got to love open source projects! Please don't forget this minor documentation issue. For me it is no "minor" since new comers need our helping hand. True, but also remember that conda-forge is not an entity unto itself. It's an extra addition to the conda-based packaging system. So expecting the conda-forge site to tell you about what conda is and how to use it is a bit like expecting the PyPi site to tell you how to write Python code. That being said, it's a good idea to support folks that do come to conda-forge first -- at least with pointers to what they should read first. And honestly I don't know if there IS a good top-level overview of the conda "system" anywhere -- the Continuum site focuses on the Anaconda distribution more than conda itself. Since I have never used conda or conda-forge, I am not the one who can create a good pull request. You are not prepared to write the content, but you could write an outline of what you think should be on the page. I suspect if you get it started, it would be more likely that folks would step in and fill in the gaps. What is the next step according to your point of view? We'll, it's an open source project -- someone qualified needs to have the interest and time to write the docs. Posting this issue may be the best you can do. Though I think a PR with an outline might prompt folks to fill it in. Or post the outline here. For instance, I have an interest, but not much time. But if I could contribute a bit in about the same amount of time it takes me to write this note-- I likely would.

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-CHB — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#374 (comment)>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AA38YHiu-xgL2AWODk6iuwuQkDShm35Lks5rx3OPgaJpZM4NAXi0> .

[ChrisBarker-NOAA]

I'm in the bus, so as much as I can do on a phone: This is actually a good summary of what conda is; https://conda.io/docs/intro.html And this: https://conda.io/docs/ Includes links to blog posts and discussions. So maybe a link to conda.io, and then a brief couple sections: "Getting started using conda and conda-forge": -install miniconda ( link to the download site) - add the conda-forge channel : instructions here. - optionally create an environment (links to conda environment docs) - start installing packages! I think it would be a really good idea to have these kind of docs upfront and center. Partly because at this point it is more robust to rely on conda-forge as your primary, and default as secondary. Which means you don't really want to start with the whole Anaconda distribution and then start tacking conda-forge packages onto it. And so despite the fact that we still depend on the continuum provided miniconda we really do want to be able to present a way for folks getting started with a conda-forge based system.

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-CHB On Apr 20, 2017, at 8:02 AM, Thomas Güttler <[email protected]> wrote: @ChrisBarker-NOAA <https://github.com/ChrisBarker-NOAA> thank you Chris for understanding what I want. I see 80 open issues on github. Please don't forget this minor documentation issue. For me it is no "minor" since new comers need our helping hand. Since I have never used conda or conda-forge, I am not the one who can create a good pull request. What is the next step according to your point of view? — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#374 (comment)>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AA38YHiu-xgL2AWODk6iuwuQkDShm35Lks5rx3OPgaJpZM4NAXi0> .